Good morning Grid Connections listeners
and welcome back to another episode.

In case you may have not listened this
Grid Connections podcast is where we

explore the innovations and mind shaping
the future of energy, transportation and

sustainability.

Today we're excited to have a very special
guest, Yakov Berenshteyn the director of

partnerships at Gridweave.

a pioneering company at the forefront of
integrating renewable energy into our

everyday lives.

In this episode, Yakov will share insights
into how GridWeave is transforming the

energy landscape through strategic
partnerships and cutting -edge technology.

We'll dive into the challenges and
opportunities of creating a more

sustainable and efficient grid while tying
the needs of electric vehicles to a smart

and much more efficient way of making
clean transportation possible, the impact

of digitalization on energy consumption,

and what the future holds for renewable
energy integration.

But first, while I was recording this
episode yesterday, Yakov mentioned there

would be a big announcement with an auto
OEM, and so I'm excited that I can be one

of the first to share the press release
with you now.

Weave Grid and Toyota is announcing a
partnership that empowers Toyota drivers

to save money while charging their
vehicles at home and to contribute to a

cleaner, more resilient electric grid.

In 2023 Toyota sold over 54 ,000 plug -in
electric cars in the U .S.

including 14 ,715 all electric and almost
40 ,000 plug -in hybrids.

The Weave Grid and Toyota partnership
leverages Weave Grid's intelligent

software platform in concert with the
telematic systems on Toyota's electric

vehicles to provide actionable EV load
management capabilities to the country's

largest electric utilities as well as
allowing

Toyota EV drivers to save money on their
utility bill.

So why is this important?

You may be asking.

Partnerships like these help the adoption
of EVs by allowing drivers to save money

while charging their vehicle.

This partnership also helps utilities work
closely with automakers to manage the load

on the grid, which we'll be discussing
quite a bit today.

So I'm really excited to share this with
you, along with just some of the general

perspectives that Yakov was able to share
around some of the challenges and

misperceptions.

that his company has seen from both the
utility on the automaker side and in some

of the ways that their technology
addresses those.

So whether you're a professional in the
energy sector, a technology enthusiast, or

someone passionate about sustainability,
this conversation promises to be a very

valuable perspective on how we can
collectively move forward towards a much

greener and more efficient future.

And if you find today's discussion as
enlightening as we do, we have a small but

impactful request.

Please share the episode with at least one
other listener you think would enjoy it.

Spreading the word helps us connect with
more like -minded individuals and really

helps to grow this podcast and what we can
do for our listeners such as yourselves.

So let's see how Gridweave is connecting
the dots on the energy grid today with

their director of partnerships, Yakov
Berenshteyn With that,

Enjoy!

thanks, Chase.

I'm the director of automotive and
charging partnerships for a company called

WeaveGrid.

We're about an 85 person company out of
San Francisco.

And while our mission kind of in the
biggest picture is to help decarbonize

transportation, what we specifically do is
we've created a software platform that

sits between the electric utilities on
which people are now charging their many

new EVs.

And on the other hand, on the other side,
the automakers and some of the charging

hardware providers whose data and controls
are enabling us to deliver a new set of

grid services that are of value to the
utilities, to the automakers, to the

charging providers, and of course, the
drivers who sit in the middle of it all.

And I'm kind of curious, how did you get
involved with this?

How did you get connected to electric
vehicles?

Was this purely kind of a job opportunity?

Was it just an interest in the space?

Yeah, it's sort of a, you know, one of
those circuitous stories where in

retrospect, it's a combination of right
place, right time, right friends, I guess.

I am admittedly not a car guy per se, but
I am sort of a generalist whose pretty

much my whole career has been the
intersection of environmental

sustainability, clean technology, and
business.

And so, you know, previous gigs have

been around consulting to corporates on
new innovations and technologies for

utilities in the industrial sector.

I helped a large utility pour a bunch of
money into residential solar back in the

day, hopped over to a fleet telematics
oriented company out of grad school, and

then sort of, you know, right place, right
time with the right connections found out

about this 10 person company peak COVID
pandemic, spring 2020.

and thought to myself, well, you know, the
world's going to hell in hand baskets.

Why not join a 10 person startup?

What's the worst that could happen?

Um, lo and behold, uh, almost four years
later, still, still enjoying it.

Companies grown, uh, eight or nine X and
sort of head counts, uh, have raised $50

million and, um, I've gotten to play a few
different roles and have enjoyed every day

of it so far.

That's great.

And I think this is a great thing to kind
of be discussing because even though

lately I feel like our focus really has
been around electric vehicles and electric

vehicle charging, the name of the podcast
is Great Connection.

So there is obviously a large focus on how
this ties the grid, how it kind of helps

to enable better use of cleaner energy to
be then kind of being the background.

with this transportation revolution.

And so that was part of the reason I was
excited to have you on today.

And I realize, even though, like you're
saying, your background might not be, I

think we're gonna be talking a lot of
these different areas that I know I will

be and quite a few of the listeners will
be interested in.

So let's kind of jump into it then.

With partnerships at WeaveGrid, where do
companies kind of come to interact with

you most commonly?

Is it?

As an EV manufacturer, is it a utility or
what does that look like?

Yeah, so it's interesting.

We've really created this two-sided
platform that's growing on both sides.

One is the electric utilities, the other
is the car companies and the charger

companies.

Our initial client base has been the
electric utilities.

So the US super fragmented in its electric
utilities.

There's about 3,000 of them.

Many of those are tiny co-ops, so we'll
put them

What's happening with them is they're
seeing EV adoption take off.

Of course, it's very clustered and
inconsistent from state to state,

geography to geography.

But this is really starting to strain
their local electric distribution grids in

particular.

And so they're looking to solutions like
ours to help them optimize the charging

loads on those networks.

And then on the flip side, the way we...

optimize those charging loads on the
networks is we tap into the data and

controls that are streaming either from
the EVs themselves.

So when you think sort of software defined
vehicle, EV telematics, there's a lot of

buzzwords, but we are very much tapping
into kind of like the real deal data and

controls on vehicles.

We're also tapping into that with the
EVSC, the silly acronym on what which

really just means chargers.

And so we're able to provide sort of this
agnostic platform to utilities where they

can tap into this range of devices and
vehicles for those grid services.

But then those automakers and charging
companies are also coming to us and

saying, okay, so WeaveGrid helps connect
our vehicles, our drivers to the grid in

this sort of new participatory fashion.

We want to have grid interactive vehicles
as well.

We want to get into the sort of eventual

bidirectional game of backup power and
export to the grid, help us figure out the

crawl lock run to get there.

And so kind of where my role has kind of
even shifted a little bit in the last 18

months is going from, hey, automaker, do
you want to work with us to sort of

support these utility programs to, hey, it
sounds like you actually want to go.

bigger, you actually want to not do this
as like a one-off here and there with a

couple utilities, but you really want the
future of your electric vehicles to be

grid interactive.

Like Weave Grid's built up the sort of
know-how and capability to help you design

for that.

And so now we're on one side, this utility
software on the other side, this sort of

OEM facing software and almost technical
advisory kind of service.

Yeah, that's really interesting because
one of the things I think we've discussed

with quite a few guests lately is over, I
would say definitely just over the course

of 2023, but especially in the last six
months, so many of these technologies that

have been hyped up around whether it was
autonomy or especially kind of a vehicle

to grid.

There's definitely been a lot of kind of
taking some steps back and maybe it's

reality and obviously the markets and a
bit, a lot of different changes that have

kind of impacted.

Uh, the announcements versus the reality.

And there are still quite a few players
that are serious about it and do see the

long-term need, and that is just where it
seems like a lot of things are going.

But I would be kind of curious if you
could just walk us through what does the

crawl walk, run approach for that kind of
transition for vehicle to grid and the

adoption of these utilities to implement
that.

Sure, yeah.

I'll touch on that.

And I'll first caveat that WeaveGrid today
is very centrally focused on the home

charging experience for consumers.

That is of course one segment.

There are things like Explorations, other
companies, and a little bit of us as well

doing things like depot charging for heavy
duty vehicles.

Totally different paradigm of charging
needs and impacts on the grid.

So for the sake of like focusing this.

conversation a little bit, I'll touch on
sort of what's happening and that consumer

comes home with their first EV, wants to
know how to charge in their garage or in

their parking spot and the utility needs
to do something about that.

The sort of initial crawl in a lot of
cases has been utilities just better

understanding where that charging is
happening, where it's clustering, what

kind of peak loads are being hit at that
sort of granular level down to the...

address, but then also aggregate it up to
a service transformer on the grid or a

feeder or a zip code.

So just starting to understand those
hotspots.

That's kind of like the crawl.

And the way we can do that is just by
using telemetry on vehicles and devices to

understand that aggregated picture and
show utility, hey, here are where your

hotspots are.

You can now plug that into sort of
forecasting and operational management

tools that you have.

The next level is then, okay.

So we know where we're starting to get
these hotspots.

We know, you know, we being either
WeaveGrid or the utility or both together

know, hey, you know, we have a pretty
outdated hardware, electrical hardware out

in that hotspot.

How do we manage around that?

The first level is sort of behavioral
nudges and points of engagement to

drivers.

Utilities typically do that through rates,
right?

You set a time of use rate that says,

Hey, please charge after 9 p.m.

off peak window.

You'll save some money.

And that goes a pretty good distance to
sort of offset those peak loads and other

constraints.

But of course you also get the secondary
effects like, all right, you told everyone

to start charging at 9 p.m.

Guess what?

Everyone's charging at 9 p.m.

now.

The power plants are fine now.

We're not gonna run out of power, but the
local grid at the, you know, kind of the,

again, the transformer at the end of your
cul-de-sac, now that that...

Neighborhood has seven EVs in it.

That's where you start to get that
hyperlocal strain.

And so the next step up is actually
actively manage charging.

So we get opt-in and consents from the
driver and design a program with utilities

such that they can actually automate the
charging on behalf of the driver.

So it's a very sort of set it and forget
it kind of mentality.

You plug in at night, the charging might
not start right away.

Interesting.

designed to make sure that you, the
driver, get the charge you need that you

specified by the time you wake up and use
your car in the morning.

But it's co-optimized with the local grid
constraints, the bulk utility system

constraints, as well as other drivers in
your respected region of aggregation.

There's additional layers of complexity
here.

for sure.

the, yeah, the pinnacle is really around
solving for the distribution challenge.

And that's where we have some patented IP
on algorithms that solve for that really,

really nuanced electric distribution
challenge relative to EVs.

And so that's kind of the North Star, and
that's where our most progressive and

innovative utility clients are starting to
push things.

Yeah, that's a really interesting use
case.

And that kind of makes sense.

Just, I guess to use a hypothetical, if
you have 10 different people in a

cul-de-sac who are charging their EVs and
maybe one's like a really efficient small,

like a Tesla Model 3 or something.

And then someone has like a Hummer EV
that's gonna take all night to charge,

your system can kind of actively move
around, which does it get to that level?

I mean, when you talk about complexity of
like,

where the car needs to be and the battery
pack and all sorts of different kind of

variables like that.

Short answer.

Yes, it's moving, you know in a more
sophisticated direction over time.

One thing that's interesting and not yet
sort of fully fleshed out in the sort of

utility you kind of program paradigms or
regulations is What what is the sort of

you know, there's some like philosophical
questions that end up being debated

through sort of the legal

happenings of public utility commissions
and so on, but it's like, okay, so to your

point, there's a small little EV and
there's a big, big EV.

Does big EV have preference over the small
EV because they need more charge in terms

of who charges first?

What about when you go bidirectional?

Clearly the big EV has more potential to
feed power back to...

the grid, should they be compensated more
by the utility in a bidirectional

paradigm?

Or is that then inequitable because you're
just rewarding the person that can afford

the bigger car?

These are questions that have not yet been
fully settled yet, even like they've been

addressed in some forums, but we're far
from a full picture as to what that's

going to look like in the next 10 years.

Yeah, that is an interesting point, but I
could also see those interests being very,

I think with a lot of the stuff we're
talking about regionally focused.

Uh, and I, I'm kind of curious when you
talk about the crawl walk, run approach, a

lot of the stuff you talked about in the
crawl phase seems like a big part.

It's data driven, but a big part is that
education piece.

And do you find that, um, if you can share
this, is that.

Education being seeked out by the utility,
like coming to you to ask those questions,

or is it a pretty big, like you have to
reach out to them, show that this is the

solution you're solving for, and this is
kind of the data and the demand from your

user base or, uh, energy providers to
actually go down the path and make those

changes or to, to make the question even
longer, is that also very regionally

based?

Yeah, I wish I had, you know, I think the
answer that a lot of folks expect in to

that question is like, oh, it's all about
California first and everyone else later.

That's actually not how we've seen it play
out per se.

Certainly, I remember like four years ago,
some of our sort of like business

development conversations with utilities
with someone in Idaho or Ohio is a little

bit like, hey, don't you want this to
track where...

EV hotspots are happening and they're
like, I can't imagine there's EV hotspots.

Like I saw my first, you know, Tesla, uh,
three months ago and I haven't seen one

since.

Um, so there definitely were those types
of conversations.

Those are now starting to evolve where
those utilities are coming to us and

saying, Oh, yep, now that we have a little
bit more mass adoption, um, we're

interested in this problem, of course.

Um, within a given utility, um, you know,
like a hypothetical utility and like the

Midwest.

There might be a central mid-sized city to
that utility and then a lot of suburban or

mostly rural outskirts.

Of course, it's that one or two suburbs to
that mid-sized city where all the EVs are.

While they don't represent the kind of
growth you see in California, they do

represent the same like, oops, the local
grid was not designed for...

this home or this cul-de-sac, this
neighborhood, to have this many EVs.

I'll say, yeah, the other interesting
thing is, of course, there is variability

by policy developments at a state-by-state
level.

The public utility commissions are all run
at the state level, so you get this, yeah,

just kind of variability across the
country.

But...

Again, going back to the question you
didn't ask of, is this all about

California?

Actually, our flagship utility client has
been Baltimore Gas and Electric in

Maryland.

The combination of, I think, innovative
policy at the state level and focus on

transportation electrification with the
local demographics, the...

the ages and the incomes and the
population types that are most likely to

buy EVs, we're all kind of concentrated
there in the last three or four years.

And we've had this great utility partner
with whom we started on relatively basic

implementations.

And then every step of the way, they've
been this great partner of, okay, what's

next?

We've done this thing with Weaver for a
year on sort of passive engagement of

drivers.

We now have a bunch more EVs than when we
started.

What do we do next?

Okay, let's go like really active managed
charging.

Okay, 12 months, goodbye, 18 months,
goodbye.

What's next?

We have a ton more EVs than 18 months ago
and we've gotten into increasingly

sophisticated deployments with them.

So that's been just like a great paradigm
for us to copy in other utilities since

then.

For sure.

And I'm kind of curious, can you share
when you're talking about that crawl,

walk, run approach, I've definitely worked
with some clients where they're really

fun, but they are pushing kind of the
limits of what the technology is able to

do.

And then that fortunately does unlock
greater products that you can kind of then

obviously productize further and sell to
other clients, but can you share kind of

any of the maybe upcoming products that
you're excited for in this year that we've

grid is working on that's kind of being
pushed in that direction?

Oh, good question.

What can I share?

Well, I can answer it from maybe two
fronts.

One is the sort of depth of utility
sophistication, right?

So I talked about our sort of real sort of
North Star focus on the distribution

system and some of the patented IP we
have.

We're just continuing to have more, both
pilot and full-scale deployments of that

technology coming up with some of our
utility partners.

we, you know, the whole world is now
looking at the whole world, the whole

industry is starting to look more of that
bi-directional capability.

There, as far as I know, for that, for the
residential space, there is effectively

nowhere in the country that is actually
compensating drivers at any scale to

export, but there are a number of pilots
and grant opportunities, a couple of which

are

still in the running, a few of which that
we've already been selected for that will

start to go into deployments closer to mid
this year.

So we're excited for that.

The other piece, and really kind of the
focus of my specific role is the types of,

again, automotive and charging partners
that we're bringing into the fold.

We've been quietly, I'll say, working with
a couple of the largest automakers in the

world.

They...

unlike utilities who aren't competitive
with one another, the automakers are

pretty conservative in letting us talk
about them.

But I believe as soon as tomorrow, we're
issuing a press release about some of the

work we've been doing with one of the
large automakers.

So that's pretty exciting.

And that's gonna be kind of, I think a
continuous drip going forward of some of

the partners that we've been able to bring
on board.

And, you know, one thing that I sort of
love about WeaveGrid is, well,

the love and hate, the automakers are
conservative in letting us announce

things, but once we do, it's because we've
already been working with them for six,

12, 18 months or more, and have sort of
gained their trust as sort of a thought

partner and an advisor.

So once they're ready to announce our
partnership, that means we're already

pretty locked in, and yeah, more great
things to come over the coming months.

Yeah, and that does kind of make sense
just when you look at also the product

roadmap and kind of product development
for a lot of cars, especially electric

vehicles.

And there's really only a few currently
available to the market that actually even

offer a kind of a vehicle to grid system.

So I, that kind of makes sense that the
interest and as well as the announcements

would probably be waiting on either new
cars or once some of these even, uh, early

versions of the

power sharing technology or vehicle to
grid technologies become more, uh, should

I say tested?

Uh, and, and even in the public.

So I'm kind of curious though with what
are, can you share maybe some of the

misperceptions that an auto, like a, an
automaker would have about the need for

offering vehicle to grid or any kind of,
um, just even general pushback.

You usually see them may be well intended
by the automaker, but is a misperception

about the reality.

Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's like probably
two themes come to mind.

One is kind of that leap to the
bidirectional side, right?

Like it generates a lot of buzz, has some
really interesting applications in the

future.

But I think a few automakers have sort of
accidentally taken a step too far when

they've come out with announcements like,

bi-directional capable vehicle, you can
power your home and sell electricity back

to the grid and, frankly, cut the big bad
utility out of the picture and make money.

And you're like, well, first of all, that
doesn't really make sense because to get

the electricity in your car, you must have
purchased it from the utility.

So it's not like you're really going off
grid.

But then also it turns out there are some
really, I'd say, onerous, sticky...

requirements for things like electrical
interconnection.

So if you are actually going to be sort of
a quote unquote power generator, um,

feeding electricity back into the grid,
there's some very stringent, um, sort of

electrical engineering standards and
permitting standards that you have to, uh,

complete.

And I think some of the automakers kind of
discovered, Oh, telling our, you know,

customers that they can just like buy this
and do this kind of missed the mark on

actually the, the steps involved.

Um, and so all that is to say, I think,
you know, going back to the, the crawl

walk run, I think the, there's been the
perception of, okay, like we got to get

into the V2G game.

And we're sort of here to say, like,
actually there's value to be generated.

Uh, in what, you know, has been kind of
colloquially called V1G, just one

directional management, which is, you
know, our, our types of programs on

whether it's behavioral or actively
pushing charge schedules, um,

optimized to the given vehicle, you can do
a lot and gain a lot of the grid value,

not by exporting power, but just by
managing how it's consumed in the first

place.

I think the other related theme or
misperception, I think, is some not going

to bad mouth any OEMs here who are all my
friends and prospective partners, but a

little bit of...

misconception they might have had about
how to interface with the utility grid.

There were pilots in this space as early
as 10 years ago, and some automakers did

them directly with utilities, and that's
great.

That was very innovative for the time.

And now that we're in this sort of
scale-up era, I don't believe that a given

automaker is going to have sort of the...

the time or the in-house capabilities to
run a fully scaled EV program with a given

utility, let alone all 3000 in the
country.

So I do think this is like a many to many
problem that a platform provider, you

know, I'm biased here because we're the
platform provider, but this is where I

think this is why services and software
platforms like us exist.

It's like, Hey, oh yeah, do you want to
hire 100 people to do this yourself?

Maybe, but

utilities don't want the single automaker
solution.

They also want the agnostic platform.

So that's where I think we could sort of
bring scale to both sides of the equation.

Well, that, that does make a lot of sense.

It kind of goes back to what we were
talking about with just, uh, not even the

pullback from some auto makers in the
technologies that they were more bullish

about, but just kind of reality setting in
as far as what that will actually take to

execute upon that.

And I think the VDG is one of those big
ones that really did sound really great in

concept and still obviously longer term
we'll get there, but I know there were

just a lot of people that.

went in and bought cars because they knew
they could do that, whether they had a

cabin or something else that they wanted
to kind of make their house more off grid

only to realize that, yeah, it might be
$12,000 or so in panel upgrades because

they have an older home or all these kind
of other, uh, well intended, but

unforeseen costs that kind of go into
that.

And it, and in a lot of ways it's no
different than if you do install like a

diesel generator, you have to do a lot of
this stuff anyway, too.

Uh, cause in a way, that's really at least
how the grid kind of sees it.

is that sort of new area of power kind of
coming onto the grid and having how to

manage that and avoid islanding issues
that can happen.

So that's really fascinating to hear those
misperceptions from the automaker side.

Are there any from the utility side that
you can share?

Yeah, I'll say earlier in my role at
WeaveGrid, I did interface with the

utilities a lot more and not as much
recently as I spend more time with the

automakers.

But I will say one thing, I think, or one,
I don't know if it's like a misconception

or just like a lack of awareness maybe
that I perceive from the utilities is

there's sort of this underlying belief
that...

the data that's being produced by the
vehicles is somehow readily available and

should be, I don't know, free and
standardized to, you know, the consumption

of whatever purpose the utility might
have.

And I think, and I don't think this is
something that utilities sort of just

decided or individuals working for
utilities kind of decided on their own.

It's that

competitors that I don't know if you used
Napster in its two-year existence in your

teenage years like I did, but there's a
very interesting analog happening now to

where like, yeah, Napster, you can
download all this music and as far as you

can tell, it was what's the difference
between bits and bytes packaged in your

MP3 versus the bits and bytes that came
off the properly copyrighted CD if they

sound the same?

And so there's companies in our space
today that are, you know, effectively

ripping off the data from the EVs and sort
of the very Napster, Limewire, whatever

service analogy you might use from the
pre-music streaming era.

And so utilities have come to believe that
like, oh, all this data is readily

available and I could get it for close to
free through a middleman that sort of

scrapes this data from the OEMs.

The OEMs are mad.

They're kind of like the...

Yeah.

And, you know, as you may, again, I'll
keep to sort of maybe beating the Napster

horse to death here.

But eventually the Recording Industry
Association of America, with all their

lobbying and political power, went to, I
don't know, it didn't get to the Supreme

Court, but it got pretty high against
Napster.

And what are we seeing today?

Well, one of the large international
automakers is suing one of those sort of

data scraping providers.

And at the same time, our, some of our
utility friends that maybe previously

said, oh, you know, like, we're not really
looking for the highest end solution here.

We're looking for just like the minimum
viable product that gets me all the

automakers data.

They're kind of getting what they paid for
and getting their wrists slapped by

regulators.

Now the public utility commission
regulators who are saying like, hey,

either this data is being blocked.

where it's of low quality, it's not
actually enabling the services that the

utility said you were getting from the
vendors you've contracted with.

And so Weaver has been in the behind the
scenes here, or not behind the scenes, but

a little bit in the background saying,
hey, we told you this was going to be a

slow and steady wins the race.

So again, who's winning the streaming?

music streaming capabilities now.

It's the iTunes and Spotify's of the world
who, whether you like them or not, did it

the sort of legally sound and partnered
away with all the music labels.

That's kind of what we're doing.

We're not trying to be the sketchy Silicon
Valley startup that causes a blackout when

you hack into all the cars where we're
doing this with cybersecurity in mind,

sort of legal and technical contracts in
mind and trying to do the right thing

here.

Hehehehe

Hehehe

I will say I'm not sure.

There's a few standards out there for
various components of the overall kind of

end-to-end communications chain, like ISO
15118 about communication of sort of

vehicle and charger data between one
another.

I'm not sure how they're gonna shake out
and practice because yeah, something I've

kind of seen over my couple of years in
this space is there's a few really smart

academic folks who are, again, like I
don't mean that in any kind of bad way, I

mean that in a very genuine way.

They're very smart people, but their
academic nature leads them to focus in on

like the standards.

and solve so hard for the standards that
they don't solve for just getting stuff

done.

And so what ends up happening is, in our
case, we work with a lot of custom API

developments between us and our partners,
instead of through standards that may or

may not exist yet or recover the full
picture.

Three years goes by, the academics publish
an update of version 3.7 of the standard.

By the time they've done that, like...

the sort of more practical approach of
just getting stuff done via custom APIs

has taken hold and is it good or bad for
the industry if there's more custom APIs

versus standards or custom communications
protocols versus standards?

We'll see how it shakes

where do you gaps right now in the
electric vehicle and the electric vehicle

charging space and are any of those gaps
areas that WeaveGrid is really focused on

really filling currently?

Oh man, there's a lot of gaps.

I think as you spoke about on your last
episode with John Volcker about sort of

the IONNA charging network, things like
that are gonna continue to fill some of

those gaps in both real charging needs and
also driver perception.

I think one that has been a little bit
outside of our-

her view, but we're starting to touch a
little bit is the dealership, right?

It's really funny seeing the mix of
reactions we get from our utility clients

or automotive partners when we mentioned
the need to touch the dealerships.

Some are like, yes, of course, like that's
the missing piece.

Some are like, oh, God, like why would you
want to get involved in that racket?

But I think as we launch more of these
utility programs across the country, it's

only helpful if people actually enroll in
them.

And so we have a number of different touch
points we use, both through the utility,

through our own driver engagement to
marketing and through the OEM's own apps

to engage the drivers to get them to
enroll and participate in these programs.

But the education piece, I think, at the
dealership is still missing.

And so I think what we're...

just starting to scrape at the surface of
with a couple of our partners is as we

launch a new utility program in a given
geography like let's say in Colorado Can

we Go through their dealer training and
education channels to make sure at point

of sale the driver knows.

Hey Congrats, you live in Colorado and
guess what?

When you buy this vehicle, it's
automatically eligible for this program

called

Charging perks, which is just the name for
Excel Energy Colorado, the program we run

with them, and just getting that automatic
insight of like, yeah, you could be

charging with excess wind power overnight
and making an extra, you know, 50, 100,

150 bucks in utility incentives when you
drive off the lot today.

And it's like, cool.

I wasn't sure if that whole renewable
energy thing was a gimmick or not, but

sounds like this is a real and I get.

to earn a few bucks by doing it, like
great.

Like if your dealer is educated on that, I
think we can, it's not the thousands of

dollars off the hood of the car that
federal incentives are providing, but it's

the extra nudge and I think it helped
engage people.

Yeah, definitely a good long-term
investment kind of payback for going to an

electric vehicle.

I guess that's funny you say all that
because speaking of another guest we had

previously and being the director of
partnerships, I'm sure you're familiar

with kind of what Chargeway is doing in
the dealership space around education for

electric vehicles, because that does seem
like that might be kind of a natural fit.

Obviously, they also have to be there.

Yep.

Yeah, broadly familiar.

Yeah, there's definitely a few players in
this space that I think already touch

dealers more closely than we do and
certainly interested in exploring

partnerships on that side.

I met, I did meet someone from NADA, the
National Auto Dealers Association back in

September or so, an event.

And his sort of attitude and emotion was
like,

my God, if you could bring me any and all
solutions that help educate the dealers,

help them educate their customers, and
also reduce the strain that's happening

between the OEM and the dealer, they're
like, we're all ears right now.

There's so much want and need and
frustration where everyone's kind of

pointing the finger at one another saying
like, you need to do more, but there isn't

really.

sort of good lines of communication or
engagement.

So yeah, it seems like there's an untapped
need there for sure.

Yeah, that's interesting because I think
that's been kind of the unifying theme

we've seen just on this podcast in general
is education and in very different formats

is really the biggest missing piece or the
area that needs the most work.

And I think especially on kind of the
customer facing side, but especially in

the dealership space around kind of how
these things tie together, why it's

important.

and what kind of makes the change.

And it's interesting since we're talking
about the dealership space and we've been

talking primarily about fully electric
vehicles so far on this episode.

I'm just kind of curious if your team has
been doing anything around plug-in hybrids

because that seems to be kind of a renewed
interest, especially among dealers where

kind of a lower barrier of education might
be needed to kind of get someone in or

someone that already has a hybrid they
kind of understand the step to.

Is that something your team has been
seeing a lot of?

interest and kind of a need from the
utilities of how to manage those sorts of

vehicles as well.

Yeah, totally.

So our utility programs right now are
generally agnostic to P-Hev versus full

BEVs.

You can sign up either way.

And the automotive partners we're working
with as well, yeah, range from kind of

like the fully electric to the ones that
are more focused on P-Hevs in the interim.

So yeah, it's all part of the solution.

And I'm generally of the personal opinion
that it is a good sort of transition.

option.

I think the real sort of trick and or
danger is that it is so easy when you have

a PHEV to not charge.

And it's like, so on the one hand, it's
kind of like a double-edged sword.

You don't want people to come to this
belief.

Like if I forget to charge, I'm out of
luck the next morning.

On the other hand...

If they're only ever going to remember to
charge on like, you know, a particular day

that they're feeling good about saving the
environment or something, and otherwise

they're like, most of my driving is on
gasoline miles anyway, like it doesn't

matter, then you sort of miss the point.

But it is all in all, it's this awesome
opportunity where it's like, yeah, like

folks, you don't drive more than 30 miles
a day.

That's true for...

I can pick a random pool of people and
that's true for like 90% of people.

They're going to say, no, I need to go on
a road trip between San Francisco and Los

Angeles every day and with like 350 miles
of range.

It's like, just plug in, plug off and get
your 30 to 50 miles of PHEV range charged

again the next day and you'll barely ever
drive gasoline miles again.

And then once you get used to it, why not?

make the jump.

And by the time you do make the jump, I
assume ranges will have increased as well.

So should be a nice transition option if
again, if we educate well along the way.

For sure.

With that, I am that's kind of an
interesting thing you bring out with what

your technology does.

Given that it also looks at obviously the
charging side of it and then the battery

size.

And what are you seeing as far as

Is there kind of a sweet spot or, and
maybe this is more of a question on the

commercial side with what you do around
the charging needs, having kind of a, like

once you start getting into like,
especially the DC, I don't know how much

weave grades really now doing with DC fast
charging versus AC and level two charging,

but it just seems like at one point, I'm
just kind of curious, where is the best

return?

Is it like,

batteries need to be so big and then they
can do level two charging.

Is that, I mean, is that a question you're
getting from automakers about like use

case and where some of that, the data
you're seeing, or is that still, uh, kind

of almost dependent on the user and what
their kind of budget is when buying an EV

even.

Yeah, I'll say, yeah, no, it's a great
line of thinking.

And I wouldn't say I have, where Weaver
even necessarily has like a specific view

like today, especially with the first
couple waves of adopters, right?

It's like most people adopting today have
access to a charger at home.

That's obviously one of the big challenges
as soon as we're going to.

go into a new adoption pool of people that
don't necessarily have a dedicated

charger.

So up until now, it's been this like, 80%
of charging is happening at home.

Let's focus on that wave of consumers.

Now, as we get into this much broader
world of, of course, people have like

multifamily homes, apartment buildings,
other types of dwellings that may not have

access to a garage or a charger, utilities
are very interested.

in solving this because it's an equity
question for them, right?

Electric utilities have this mandate to
serve every customer and they can't kind

of, sure, for pilots they can do
innovative new things with just single

family homes and EV drivers, but at the
end of the day they need to make it

accessible to all drivers.

And so this is becoming a very big, your
question is becoming a very big question

in the space of how do we make sure this
serves everyone and that everyone can sort

of.

help benefit the grid, but also benefit
from the grid in relatively equitable

ways.

And I do think for the automakers, some of
the innovative work we're starting to do

with them is really building the OEM app,
the mobile experience, as a bit of like a

concierge service that gives you the
driver, the sort of insights and

recommendations you need and want.

about your charging.

I think right now there's this pain a lot
of EV drivers feel of having 10 apps, all

the different charging networks, and maybe
it's something from their OEM, it's

something from the utility, it's something
from a third party.

I think we pretty strongly believe that
OEMs have a right to win there with their

own mobile app, and of course some of
those others, the charging networks can be

integrated in there.

And the role that we've heard plays,
because we have a lot of data...

and insights on how what the car looks
like and how the driver is using it for

charging, we can start to recommend, hey,
like you're charging at home, you can

shift to better rates later at night, or
hey, you're charging at home, but actually

the public network that you have access to
is cheaper in the hour during which you

tend to come home from work.

Maybe you should charge there on your way
home, and that's how you'll save money.

But you know, again, that's going to be
with trade-offs of...

money versus time versus resources, et
cetera.

That's just some of the sort of
experimental thinking and discussions

where we're starting to have.

That's great.

And that does seem to be, uh, it's funny
you mentioned that because that has always

been my biggest challenge with charging is
just, and I feel like I'm a pretty tech

savvy person is around.

Just, you have to have an app for this
system and there just seems to be a lack

of foresight around usually where these
charges are, there is no cellular

connection or it is very weak.

And so both the timing out and just having
to have an app for everything.

I think.

Uh,

I completely agree with you.

Like if you're gonna buy, let's say, a
forward lightning, it makes sense for you

to have the forward lightning app.

And if you can put then the data from
multiple charging groups into that one app

and kind of augment that where you can,
awesome.

It is less likely and definitely a worse
experience to have to have the forward

lightning app and then like 10 to 15 other
definitely easy charging apps to just get

the system to work to begin with.

So that.

That makes a lot of sense.

And I think it's a big part, once again,
of just the challenges around education

and what people are seeing in that space
of kind of running into a lot of friction

for not even early adopters, but now as
the auto market's growing and you're

starting to see more people get into the
space, those challenges for kind of more

mainstream buyers.

Yeah.

And I'll just add that that's another one
of the reasons we strive so hard to work

hand in hand with our automotive partners
and our charging partners is that we don't

want to be one of that third app or that
17th app.

In fact, we don't have an app at all.

We work directly, they're co branding
experiences with the utilities or co

branding or living sort of under the

by working hand in hand with the automaker
or the charging companies is how we make

sure there's consistency between what the
driver sees in their OEMF versus what they

say see in the head unit of the vehicle
and the sort of HMI in the car versus

maybe their utility website and portal
with respect to sort of their electric

vehicle.

I think right now there's.

so many touch points you could have.

And when they show you different
information or conflicting controls, like

you say, set your charge schedule in one
app, but it doesn't port over to, you

know, your OEM app or the interface you
have in your vehicle, that's immensely

frustrating.

And so I think that's one thing we're just
avoiding from day one by working directly

with the automakers on these integrations
and making sure there's a consistent and

delightful experience for the driver.

For sure, and I realize we are kind of
coming up on the time limit you have today

with us.

But before you go, I just wanted to kind
of, I think, highlight a couple upcoming

events that your team has.

But first, where and how are, if people
are listening to this, the best ways to

learn more about WeaveGrid and connect
with you.

Sure.

Well, in good news, our lovely new website
just launched this morning, starting to

get a little stale after a couple of years
since the last refresh.

And so yeah, it's definitely a good place
to start.

I think it's the news section, which has a
lot of the reports and case studies to see

what we're up to.

And then yeah, there's some...

great events coming up.

It's wonderful because in our space, we're
working with distribution utilities, we're

working with automotive.

Guess what?

There's an event called Distribute Tech
that is next week in Orlando where a bunch

of our team will be with our utility
clients and friends.

And there's an event called Auto Tech that
we like going to in early June where a lot

of this discussion of transitioning or
augmenting the software-defined vehicles

into sort of grid interactive vehicles
happens.

We'll look to play a more leading role
this year.

But yeah, our website, our newsletter, if
you want access to that, always happy to

spread the gospel of WeaveGrid through our
various channels.

Well, I appreciate that.

I know when we were, uh, kind of playing
and discussing this episode, it sounds

like you guys will also be at South by
Southwest this year.

Um, so it definitely seems like you guys
are trying to be out there and get the

word out about weave grading, kind of
share what, how, not only how you guys are

helping, but like how serious the need is
for kind of filling these gaps when it

comes to electric vehicle charging and
especially the data and technology side.

Bridging all these together.

Yeah, absolutely.

We're super pumped.

I think South by Southwest is March 10th,
if I remember correctly, our panel there.

So, yeah, really bringing some of the work
we do is very behind the scenes.

It's kind of the digital infrastructure
for the physical infrastructure, which

most people don't see or care about, which
is totally fine.

But yeah, these opportunities like South
by Southwest really present a nice

opportunity to bring that a little bit
into the.

you know, the public sphere and the public
dialogue so people get a sense of, oh,

there's some cool stuff going on behind
the scenes to make this revolution a

reality.

For sure.

And I think with that, we'll kind of end
today's episode, but I just want to say

thank you so much for coming on today,
Yakov.

And it's been really interesting learning
more about WeaveGrid and it's great to see

that this technology is out there just
because it does.

It's great that you guys are kind of the
layer between so many of these different

technologies that everyone wants to like
promote each and each of these

technologies do have their strengths in
place.

But there's definitely a huge opportunity
for really making a lot easier for all of

these to communicate together and to
provide that data to make them more

efficient for the end user.

So thank you so much for coming on today.

Of course, thank you for having me.

Thank you for joining us today.

As we wrap up this enlightening
conversation with Yakov Berenshteyn the

Director of Partnerships at GridWeave, we
hope you're walking away with a renewed

sense of optimism and curiosity about
clean transportation and the future of

energy, all of which can build a stronger
and more resilient electrical grid.

Yakov's insights into the evolving
landscape of renewable energy and how

electric vehicles can better help with
this transition.

made possible by the innovative efforts at
GridWeave remind us of the impactful

changes happening in our world, driven by
technology, partnership, and collective

action.

We want to extend our sincerest thanks to
Yakov for joining us today and sharing his

expertise and vision.

It's conversations like these that fuel
our passion for exploring the connections

that shape our grid and our future.

Before we sign off, we'd love to keep this
conversation going and hearing your

thoughts.

Connect with us on social media, share
your takeaways from this episode, and let

us know what topics you're eager to hear
more about.

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Each share helps us grow and continue to
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Thank you for tuning in and charging
forward with us.

Until next week, this is the Grid
Connections Podcast, signing